talking
to carol
http://www.blowfish.com/radio/
Carol and Robert talk about the Center for Sex & Culture, sex ed
(and the lack of it), and other things with the lovely folks at Blowfish.
______________________________
Carol Queen interview with Bridgitte Rivers for her Human Values
class, fall 2006
Many people would argue that sexual freedom is valueless, and at its
worst leads to moral decay. How would you rebut this way of thinking?
CQ: Sexuality is part of each of us intrinsically, and each
of us is somewhat different from every other person: it’s part of what makes
us individuals. The notion of “moral decay” is tied up with
the philosophy or belief that we should essentially be the same sexually:
there’s one right way (moral way) to be. And since this simply
isn’t true, to advocate ethical sexual freedom is to work against
the repression and pain that results when people don’t have permission
to be themselves.
Most people have never heard the phrase "Sex Positive".
Can you explain what it means and why this concept has value for our
society
or for individuals?
CQ: The short version of “sex positive”: sex has or could
have a positive, pleasure-enhancing, and valuable role in every person’s
life, rather than being essentially about either procreation or danger,
as our culture so often codes it; and attached to this idea is the
notion that we are all sexual individuals and all deserve respect no
matter
what kind of consensual sexual behavior we prefer.
Do you consider yourself a person with strong values?
CQ: Absolutely, and this has been true since I was quite young.
Do you believe your interest in sexuality shaped your values, or that
your values triggered your interest in sexuality?
CQ: Great question. A little of both, I think, but I was developing
values affected by 60s ethics (freedom, egalitarianism, pacifism) before
I was
entirely clear what I wanted my sexual future to be. Once I knew what
path I was on (that is, a path of diverse sexual interests), that reinforced
all those values. I’m sure a good deal of my essay-writing is
grounded in these ideals and my ongoing process of working out what
they mean
in terms of sex.
The current world situation has everyone worried; Iraq, Terror, the Economy.
What is it about sexuality that keeps your activism focused here rather
than on one of these other causes?
CQ: Partly it is that I already have a role in the realm of
sex education and sexual freedom advocacy, and it seems to me valuable
to maintain
it rather than switch to a different focus. I do feel like I do some
useful things re: the big national picture, and lately on my blog I’ve
been expanding a bit beyond just sex. But there is no doubt that my main
focus remains sexuality, and I actually believe that there are sexual
issues underlying or relating to those other issues too: look at Abu
Ghraib, the hypocrisy of Mark Foley and Ted Haggard, the fact that the
administration has so severely restricted sex education and contraceptive
and safe sex information – to my mind, these show a relationship
between sexual freedom and big-picture cultural issues. Sexuality is
truly a bedrock question in a culture, so this makes perfect sense.
Have you ever had a conversation with someone who completely disagreed
with your stance on sexuality? How do you respond in situations like
this?
CQ: Actually, just recently. Robert, my partner, and I went
to London to participate in a documentary about an event we host, the
Masturbate-a-Thon.
The documentarian got a fundamentalist Christian man to “debate” with
us, which amounted partly to him quoting Scripture at us and partly to
him raving about gay male sexual practices. (Since masturbation is enjoyed
by many more people than gay men – a fact we tried over and over
to point out to him —this seemed like an odd response.)
My experience is that people who have seriously conservative views
on sex are often threatened by certain things sexually, and often they
let
it show in conversation whether they mean to or not. Clearly our fundy
friend was such a person. So I feel a certain amount of understanding
or compassion in those cases, when I can see what it is that bothers
them so much about my ideas or way of life. I can remain pretty calm,
and I try to get through the denial to get them to agree we have different
ways of looking at the world. I don’t really need everyone to agree
with me – just to stop being hateful to each other. It’s
the cases when people are hateful that I have a hard time. Hate and
discrimination are NOT part of my value system.
Has anyone you've disagreed with ever said something that made you re-think
your values or principles?
CQ: Not really, although as I just implied, my compassion is
sometimes challenged, and that does impinge on the value I place on
compassion
for others. But as to “Hey, he’s got a point, maybe everyone
should be heterosexual” – nope.
The Center for Sex and Culture offers many events for sex workers such
as prostitutes, dominatrixes and so on. Why is it valuable to increase
society's awareness of sex workers?
CQ: Because sex workers are part of all or most cultures and have been
part of our societies throughout history: this fact is enough by itself
for people to need better, less stereotypic information about them. Add
to that that many people have been sex workers or have patronized them,
and that sex workers are misunderstood and often mistreated: to me this
adds up to a need not only for services for sex workers, but for increased
awareness about them. This includes acknowledgement of the diversity
in the sex worker population, because there are lots of contexts for
sex work and types of people who engage in it, many different responses
among these people to doing sex for a living, and our culture tends to
minimize all this difference.
You helped found GAYouth in 1975. This was an incredible brave action.
In essence you were coming out and raising your profile at the same time.
What were the repercussions from this?
CQ: Well, it was wonderful in terms of making a support group for young
people who did not have enough support (including me), and meeting lots
of young people from various walks of life was also very useful. It helped
me understand myself and my communities much better. And it certainly
got me on my way to the life I lead now as a sexual advocate: we actually
sued the school district to get our ads into the school papers, and so
I became publicly visible and had to step up to that role.
I also received death threats (as did my mom – see why I’m
intolerant of hateful folks?), and this really cemented in my value
system how important these issues are. If other people can be moved
to violence
by some of our sex lives or sexual values, sex is not an insignificant
or merely personal thing.
How did your family and friends react when you came out as a young woman?
CQ: For my family it took some getting used to. First I came
out to my dad and he was horrified lest my mom find out; later, when
I was about
to become a public spokesperson, I came out to Mom, and she was more
puzzled than upset. (She had grown up in the kind of conservative family
that mainly kept silent about sex and sexual diversity, so she knew
almost nothing about gayness or bisexuality.) My brother was pretty
OK with
it, though he is a born-again Christian and I know he feels some tension
between his community’s values and the way I live my life.
Almost all my friends were tolerant or accepting; I was lucky in that
regard. The biggest issue I had was with the gay/lesbian community’s
intolerance about bisexuality. That led me to identify publicly as
a lesbian for ten years, and so I had to come out again later!
Do you believe men and women who are coming out today (Gay/Lesbian/Bi/Kink)
are still facing the same problems you confronted in 1975, or are the
sexual issues being dealt with today different?
CQ: Essentially I believe the issues are the same, except that
there are fewer people now like my mom who know nothing about gayness
and have
no opinion; I believe there is more acceptance but also, in a way,
more polarization. Kink is, I think, a subject of much ignorance as
well as
bias. There are more sources of information and support for people
today, if they can find them. And the other thing that is quite different
is,
of course, the internet. This is a positive tool in many, many ways,
but also contributes to the confusion, in that porn and erotic images
are accessible (and polarizing), and info is available but it isn’t
always correct.
Many people would like to see Pornography banned in this country. Do
you believe Pornography has value?
CQ: Absolutely, but that doesn’t mean I think all porn is good.
There’s lots of bad and mediocre porn, and too little fabulous
porn. But its positive values are, besides being an element of free expression,
that porn demystifies the body and sexuality (not as diversely as I would
wish, but people are drawn to it for that reason), is a medium through
which people experience arousal, which is a positive value in my book,
and it acts as a source of information for the curious. (The curious
should have access to excellent sex education, but in this country most
people don’t, and porn fills in some of the gaps.)
Do you believe that sexual freedom and free speech are related topics?
Do you think that tolerance for pornography and sexual activism can be
a measure of the health of Free Speech in this country?
CQ: Absolutely. There is no free speech when porn and sexual activism
are suppressed; that is, it is not truly free.
What is one value you hold that you wish had a greater presence in society?
CQ: Respect for diversity, both in the sense that there is too much intolerance
and misunderstanding of those different from us, and also because I think
too many of us tend to expect others to be and respond like us, rather
than like themselves. And this leads to assumptions about each other
that are incorrect and that fuel further misunderstanding and intolerance.
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